The migration to container-based application infrastructures is accelerating at a faster pace even than we saw with hypervisor-based infrastructure 18 or so years ago. Hand in hand with this is the race to provide better security solutions that are native to and purpose-built for containerized environments. Aqua Security has established itself in the container security arena, recently raising $25 million in capital funding as it seeks to lock down the container security market.
In this chat, we sat down with Rani Osnat of Aqua Security to discuss the recent funding round and the state of the container security market. Below is the streaming audio of our discussion. Below that is the transcript of our discussion.
Alan Shimel: Hi, everyone. This is Alan Shimel for DevOps.com and Security Boulevard, and welcome to another chat.
Today’s guest is Rani Osnat, VP of Marketing for Aqua Security, one of the leaders in the container security market, and Rani, welcome to our DevOps Chat.
Rani Osnat: Thank you, Alan. Thanks for having me.
Shimel: Thank you. Thank you for being here. So, Rani, the big news out of Aqua recently is, by anyone’s yardstick, a large raise of capital to fuel Aqua’s continued growth.
Osnat: Yep, that’s correct. We raised $25,000,000.00 in a series B round led by Lightspeed Venture Partners, which is a very well-known tier one VC.
Osnat: And, it’s—well, to the best of my knowledge, it’s the biggest funding round in our space in continuous security to date, and it also brings total funding for us to $38.5 million.
Shimel: That’s fantastic.
Osnat: So, we’re, I think, in a pretty good position to capture what we think is a tremendous opportunity in this market.
Shimel: Sure. And so, Rani, we were talking off mic prior to recording today—you know, beyond the sheer magnitude of the number, right, 25 is a big number, 38 is a bigger number—but beyond that, there’s also the validation. Which is, you assume a company like Lightspeed Ventures, Microsoft Ventures is another investor in the company, Shlomo Kramer, of course, from Check Point is another investor. You would assume these people are pretty bright people and they don’t throw their good money away. That, if they’re investing this money, they invest it for two things. No. 1, they see the opportunity in the market, so the market itself is ripe and worthy of that sort of investment. And then No. 2, that the team and the product at Aqua are also worthy of the investment.
Let’s first talk about the market, if we can, though. I mean, so this is a validation, I think, of the container security market, if you will, right?
Shimel: The containers are real, that securing them are real, and there’s gonna be a big market for that coming up. What do you think?
Osnat: Yeah, I mean, definitely, when we started Aqua just under two years ago, we didn’t quite know how fast the market would move and what kind of market it would shape up to be. And fairly early on, even when we were in beta in early 2016, it became fairly obvious that this is an enterprise market. That is that, you know, some of the biggest adopters of container technology are not just Silicon Valley startups or web-scale companies that kind of invented this, but Fortune 500 enterprises across verticals like financials, insurance, retail, aerospace, manufacturing, and so forth, as well as government.
And so, paradoxically, you would expect this kind of new technology to be first adopted by startups, but the real boom in adoption comes from the fact that enterprises are adopting it very quickly, and I think there are several reasons for that. One is that the benefits of using containers are overwhelmingly positive, and the benefits are pretty immediate. So, you can see benefits in agility in terms of how fast you can deliver applications to the market, you can see benefits in moving to the cloud, and reducing your infrastructure costs and operational costs. And you can see much better control over what kind of applications you’re deploying, where, and when, et cetera, largely through automation.
So, these benefits are overwhelming, and additionally, containers are easy, right? So, it’s—you know, one of the things that made containers, which in itself is not a new technology, it’s been around for a while, but what companies like Docker did is make containers very accessible and very usable. And so, the fact that they’re easy to use makes adoption easy as well, and you know, you kind of see a pincer movement of, on the one hand, grassroots adoption through developer and DevOps teams of containers, so they develop applications using containers. And on the other hand, you’re seeing a top down approach of, you know, CIOs, CTOs seeing the benefits of containers, adopting them, or mandating their use for, for example, cloud native applications to drive cloud usage, hybrid cloud, cloud migration—all of those good things.
Shimel: Absolutely. So, Rani, you know—granted, I’m not as involved in container and container security as you are, obviously, but to me, a couple of different thoughts. Number one, in my limited—granted, limited expertise, containers aren’t that easy, right? I mean, I think when we talk about containers and then, like, Kubernetes and stuff to manage the whole environment—for someone who hasn’t developed on them before and is used to developing, let’s say, in VMware or in Bare Metal, there is, there’s a learning curve. Maybe once you pick it up, it’s easier.
But the other thing is, I always try to compare sort of container adoption, let’s say, to hypervisor adoption or VMware adoption, and I would say that containers, their adoption curve is higher or steeper, faster than sort of hypervisor’s.
Osnat: Yeah, that’s correct.
Shimel: And really what I see, the last couple—you know, we’re always doing surveys here at DevOps.com, announcing the new Security Boulevard site—what we’re seeing is, you know, we always saw people messing with the containers, right? R&D testing, what have you—but the numbers of containers, the percentage of companies that have containers in product deployment, you know, in real, frontline stuff? Where it was—jeez, just two or three years ago was low teens, below 20 percent—is now climbing, getting near that critical mass number, right, of 50 percents and stuff like that. And that’s huge, right? You’re talking about early adopters moving to mainstream in a matter of months, and that’s —
Osnat: That’s correct.
Shimel: — that’s the numbers you see as well?
Osnat: Yeah, we see that. And again, I don’t think this would’ve been the case if containers weren’t easy, as I said. I mean, there’s always a learning curve with new technology, but I think if you’re a new developer, a new programmer working today, working on a greenfield application, there’s really no reason for you to use something that is not containers unless it’s something obscure for technology reasons.
But mostly, it’s a much easier way to develop applications quickly than previous approaches. And I think, you know, if we take a broader picture, a container is—this adoption of containers does not occur in a vacuum, and we actually see a convergence of three trends that are kinda coming together and containers are probably the biggest enabler of those three trends. And these trends are happening independently of each other. So, you know, one trend is one that you are very familiar with, it’s the name of your site, is DevOps, you know, the proliferation of DevOps as a method, process, organizational philosophy, et cetera, which is all about delivering applications faster and in a more continuous way, and containers make that easier than before.
Another trend is the move to microservices architectures, you know, for web applications or cloud native applications, which is basically adopting what web scale companies like Facebook and Twitter and Netflix started, and now bringing into the mainstream. That, too, is facilitated to a great degree by containers, because implementing microservices as containers is, today, probably the easiest method of doing that. I mean, there are the so—called serverless architectures, et cetera, but they’re much less mature than containers are at the moment. Not that containers are super mature, but they’re more mature.
And the other aspect is the whole kind of hybrid cloud, cloud native movement where, you know, it took 10 years, but enterprises are adopting cloud services in a very big way, including industries that you would never dreamed of having on the cloud, on the public cloud, like pharmaceutical, health care, insurance, banking, federal, and so forth.
So, all of these—and again, containers, because they’re portable, because they can run anywhere in the same way, they’re a really good way to realize this notion of hybrid cloud. For example, we at Aqua have a customer—who, unfortunately, I can’t name, but it’s a well-known company. And they are, for them, this is already a reality. They are deploying applications on both Amazon and Azure using the same framework, using the same security policies, and in a way that makes these clouds interchangeable for them, so they can run application A on Azure today and they can run the same application on Amazon tomorrow. So, that’s a real change that we see, and containers are a big part of that.
So, all of these things together, I think, are what’s driving this adoption. And yet, you know, I think we have to distinguish between adoption and penetration or, you know, maybe some other word. But the fact is that today, if you look at the total workloads that enterprises are running, containers are a very, very small percentage of that. But, if you look at any new applications delivered over the next five years as well as looking at migrating legacy applications to the cloud, you’ll see this number growing exponentially over the next few years.
So, yes, in terms of the number of enterprises now either looking at, working with, or already deploying containers, that number is growing very fast, and I think there’s probably hardly a large enterprise on the planet today that is not at least thinking about containers if not already using them. But at the same time, you know, it’s early days for them. Most of them—not all of them, but most of them, the vast majority are looking at the first few applications being deployed, and this is just the first drop of rain before the deluge. So, it’s gonna be a lot bigger.
Shimel: Yep. Rani, a couple of comments, questions, follow ups. So, first of all—yes, DevOps, containers, they seem to go like peanut butter and chocolate. Again, so does microservices and containers, but to me, I—you know, when I was a kid, a teacher once taught us that all spaghetti is macaroni, but not all macaroni is spaghetti.
Shimel: So, it almost seems that, you know, wherever you see containers, you see microservices, but you don’t always see containers when you see microservices, right? In some regards, microservices can be even bigger, right? It has even more of a use footprint. Actually, on DevOps.com, we’re launching a microservices channel which we hope will eventually grow into a standalone site, because I do think microservices is that big and has the potential to be that big.
Osnat: Yeah, but microservices is not a technology; containers are. Microservices is an architecture, you know what I’m saying? There’s a difference.
Shimel: Yeah, fair enough. Yep. But, you know, bringing it back—and, of course, loud usage and all of that. But, let’s turn for a moment and talk about the mission of securing containers and all of these architectures and platforms and so forth. That’s really what Aqua is, and when we talk about why they invested money, these investors, not just because the containers are so big, but because the mission of securing them is also big.
Osnat: That’s true. So, yeah, I mean, when you look at—so, first of all, we’re not really, I mean, the fact that we’re a container security company might allude to the fact that we secure containers. That’s not exactly true. So, you know, we don’t look to secure a container or containers, we look to secure the workloads or applications that are running on containers.
Osnat: And that’s a difference. Because—and again, here, there are several trends that come into play. One is really that these things that I mentioned before, the DevOps trends, the microservices, architecture, and moving to the cloud, they also affect how you can and want to do security. You know, if we look at the cloud first—when you go to the cloud, a lot of the basics, you know, the bread and butter security that you use to invest in as an enterprise disappears. Why? Because these are services that are already taken care of or provided by the cloud service provider.
So, you know, when you run your applications on Amazon, you don’t really have to worry about things like data center security, infrastructure security, network security to a degree, identity management to a degree. And so, a lot of these things are—you know, they’re basically taken care of for you. So, the focus shifts to the application layer, and that is one aspect.
Another aspect, which is a really positive one for using containers, is the fact that, since you are now breaking up the application into a bunch of microservices, you can have much more visibility and control into what the application is doing. You know, if you look at an individual container or microservice, it’s much easier to understand the intended function of that container or service, and consequently, be able to understand what is considered good behavior, and be able to identify pretty easily what is bad behavior. And you do that at a very granular level.
Additionally, if you look at the networking aspect, in a way, the networking has been brought into the application in a more visible way than before. Before, you could have things done within the application that maybe a malicious actor did within the application, and it’s all done internally, and it’s a black box. You don’t have visibility into it until it actually gets out.
With microservices, you are able to see the interaction between the different components of the application, sometimes at a very fine grained level and, again, be able to identify any kind of weird or abnormal communication between, you know, parts of the application that are not supposed to be communicating that way. So, that’s another benefit. So, these things really allow us to have much more control and visibility over what the application is doing.
The last piece is around DevOps, which is often nowadays coined as DevSecOps, which is the whole notion of shifting left security—i.e., bringing some of the control points not to the run time environment but to the developer environment. And why is that? Because containers are also immutable, right? So, if you’re using containers directly, you’re not supposed to see any change in one time environments. You’re not supposed to see patching, nobody is supposed to SSH into your host that’s running containers, it’s supposed to be entirely orchestrated and automated.
And so, anything that happens there is by definition not good. But, at the same time, you have the opportunity to make the application more secure from the start, which is in the development phase, and that includes things like, you know, removing vulnerabilities, ensuring the configuration is correct, enforcing best practices. And if you can automate that—which we do—then you’re winning, right? Because you’re delivering a much more secure application to start with, you’re gonna have a smaller attack surface, and then in run time, all you need to do is make sure that there is no drift or no unexpected changes to the run time environment, which would be considered malicious or at least suspect.
Shimel: Got it. So, Rani, we’re running a little low on time. We’re actually out of time, but let’s keep talking. [Laughter]
Shimel: So, now, we’ve got—what are you gonna do, how are you using the 25 million? What’s the plan?
Osnat: Right, so you know, in our short life of two years, we managed to launch the product very early and get quite a few enterprise customers, many of them Fortune 100 customers across many industries, and that sort of traction is what really made Lightspeed and the other investors invest in us, and we need to continue this. The market is growing, right? As we mentioned, adoption is growing at an accelerated pace, so we need to be there.
That means, you know, investing in the quality as well as the breadth and depth of our solution. There is—containers are not a singular technology. I mean, there’s a lot of variation in the stack, not just in orchestrators and OS’s, but in the container engines themselves, and this will become even more so over the next few months as things like, you know, additional run time engines are introduced, and not just the Docker open source run time engine.
And so, this requires investing in the right technologies and making sure that we can fulfill the requirements of our customers and, additionally, of course, we need to expand our presence, both in the U.S. as well as in other parts of the world.
Shimel: Let me talk to you about that a sec, Rani. So, I’m gonna assume U.S. probably represents at least 50 percent of your market, is that about right?
Osnat: That’s correct, yeah. [Cross talk]
Shimel: And probably Ameya the lion’s share of the rest.
Osnat: At the moment, yes, but Asia is also growing, you know, there’s—
Shimel: I also wanted to ask—what about AP?
Osnat: Yeah, so Asia Pacific is growing as well. There are a lot of container users in places like Australia, China, Japan, and so forth. And so, this is—these are obviously big economies, there are big companies there. They’re as advanced in terms of cloud adoption as the U.S. in some cases. So, we need to be there.
Shimel: Absolutely. Well, how do you—so, I was actually out at RSA APJ this summer, and it was in Singapore. And, you know, I had a chance—I actually put on a DevSecOps event there with RSA. So, I had a chance to talk to many of the RSA attendees, some of the vendors and stuff.
I mean, what’s interesting there is, your infrastructure, you know, even in Europe, AWS is an 8,000-pound gorilla, right?
Shimel: Where do you—we don’t see that in Asia Pac. AWS is still a player, obviously, but there are other solutions there.
Osnat: Mm-hmm. Yeah, that—
Shimel: Go ahead. How does that affect you guys, or how do you deal with it?
Osnat: Well, it affects us partially because mostly, you know, we’re pretty much cloud agnostic, right? We run on all the major clouds. It’s not a major effort for us to run on additional clouds. You know, even today, we support Amazon and Azure, Google, IBM Bluemix. And so, it’s relatively easy for us to support additional clouds, and it’s not a—that’s not the stumbling block, in most cases, right? It’s more like things like esoteric OS’s or weird configurations that we encounter sometimes. But, in most cases, that would not be an issue. Not to mention that a lot of companies are also running private clouds, using VMware or other types of virtualization infrastructure. So, that is really not a stumbling block for us, at all.
Shimel: Good, good. Interesting. Rani, as I said before, we’re way over time, I need to wrap this up. But, first of all, congratulations on the raise. I’m sure Aqua has 25,000,000 good uses for this money as well, and we’ll see more coming down the pipeline in terms of both functionality products as well as reach around the world. You know, always good to have you on, you have a great handle on where the container market is and of course where the container security market is.
So, thanks for being our guest today. We’ll have you on again soon.
Osnat: Thank you.
Shimel: Thank you. This is Alan Shimel for DevOps and Security Boulevard Chats. Thanks for listening. We’ll hope to see you soon on another chat. Bye bye, everyone.